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View of Uzbekistan

New MessageView of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) Alisher
What do you think about it?

I think it is funny, but it is true, at the same time shame on us.

11-02-2000 14:58:53HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) Sanik
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That's scaryy...


11-02-2000 15:00:12HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) haligi
I remember we'd read this story last year and had a big discussion about it here in UmidBoards.
11-03-2000 02:05:46HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) Nancy
it gave me a thought, maybe I should also make a website about my impressions of people in the US.

professor at my college: so where are you from?

me- uzbekistan.

professor-that's great! you know, my wife will be visiting pakistan next summer.

me-khe khe..

some stupid girl/guy what's up!

me(I am still confused to say not much, or nothing much, sounds stupid enough)

another stupid thing -how are you?

--that's good.


I don't have problems with a free clothing style, but coming to the class in pyjamas???? with unbrushed hair???

you must know how they gossip. You dress up with a taste, you can look sexy and just for that they call you slut? Huh? eating burbing, wiping noses? they go to bathroom with bare foot, and mostly don't wash hands?

I wish I could care about that californian guy's website more.

11-03-2000 03:27:07HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) Duma
There is an interesting story to you:

Bu voqea mana shundai boshlangandi...

Summer.. Backhome.. (Unf***ingbelievable boring)..
I got lined up with some of PCVs in my city and we went to visit an old friend of ours (also a PCV). She was living with her host family. Long before entering the house we decided that i was gonna play the american "Ben". As usual, we have been welcomed pretty cool.
Now let me tell you a little bit about this family:
The governor of this house - a man (i guess) in his 40s, Dean of the faculty of Foreign Languages, at Jizzakh Pedagogical Institute.
The first lady - a teacher of English at the same Institute.
and two daughters..

Ok, now let's get back.. There were some other people, guess the relatives to the family:
- Qarang, anuvinisi o'zbekka o'xshab ketarkan.
- Qaisi biri? ( fingerpointing begins..)
We were asked to come into the house... Now we're sitting around the big table,(with those relatives),and talking about the recent news in US..
HOST:- So, what's your name? ( Everyone else is already forgotten, and i am the only heating point)
- Hmmm, Sam?
- Where are you from?
- USA?
- You look like an uzbek ?
- Oh really? [I could not hold it anymore]
- Xaxaxa, rostanmi?
- ????? (I would give a lot to see that look again)

The point is... Sorry , no point. And i am really not good at story tellingHappy Face
I just wanted to say that we are the most curious nation on this planetHappy Face

11-03-2000 09:39:51HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) Sanjar
Karimov etganu:

"Dunyoda ikki sodda xalq bolsa, uning biri Ozbekdir (ikkinchisi chukcha?) Happy Face , agar bitta bolsa - u Ozbekdir!"


Ozbekni tushunish uchun bir martalik tripning ozi yetarli emas.

Amerikadan kevoldim deb Ozbeylani mazah qiladigallani qaysi yerga tiqib qoyishshi Ozbeyla uzi biladi. Agar shu gaplarini Ozbekistonda Ozbeylaga aytsa .... gosh, chiqqan yeriga qaytarib tiqib qoyadiganlar yoq emas! Happy Face

p.s. Ha rostdanam, anovi bola Ozbekka oxsharkande, a? Happy Face (Rasmiga qaralaring!)



11-03-2000 10:34:06HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) yusuf
I do agree with you Sanjar
take care
11-03-2000 14:25:27HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) the_california_bum
I was just checking my site and followed the trail and ended up here. Anyway I just have to say that Iím the dude responsible for all the content in the story since I am the one who wrote it. Basically I wrote the story for my own enjoyment and that of some of my friends and family who know I have a quirky sense of humor (that was the intended audience of my story).

If I misunderstood some aspect of Uzbek culture, please forgive me (I was only there for one month) and did not have the luxury of learning formally about Uzbek culture (Peace Corps Volunteers have three months of training if I recall), I just wrote of my first impressions after hopping off a plane.

Iím sure you had some things you found weird when you left your country to study and went through your own cultural shock (such as a lack of a Mehmon) or eating strange foods (like fish Tacoís - which are a big thing here in Southern California).

As far as why you should feel shame, I donít see why you should feel responsible for what has transpired in the recent past. Think of it this way, 2000 years ago Samarkand was a kick ass place of commerce and education, while in the Americas there was no such thing as the USA.

Now that all of you have been fortunate enough to go onto higher education, and learn new skills (such as using the internet), use these new skills to improve the lives of your people and environment back home. If you just use your skills to chase the almighty dollar or Cym (or is that Sum, I never got the translation right) and only look at short term gains for yourselves, you should feel shame.

b.t.w. Nancy if you want to do a website about (your) impressions of people in the US here is some material to start of with


American culture is pretty psychotic because there are so many opposing interests and points of view and the society here is not that homogeneous. If you look at the big picture you have to be specific about different ethnic groups in the USA. For example realize that the native Americans who migrated from Asia 10,000 years ago and founded such great civilizations as the Aztecs, Maya and Inca are pretty much hosed. The northern Europeans who colonized the Americas and displaced those great civilizations I just mentioned are now themselves being displaced by ethnic immigrants - Chinese, Indians, etc.

11-04-2000 02:51:41HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) scorpio
WOW, cool reply . I liked it !
11-04-2000 04:19:20HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 2 times) sherzodR
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To: the_california_bum
Good job, good reply...
I ran across your story last year and we had a huge discussion on it right on this board then. I agree with almost everything.
You made some good points in your story as well.

Yes, it sure is scary. I wish everything in the story was lie. But Sad Face .

I agree, SJ, Uzbeks are pretty naive(I hope this is the right word for your "sodda") people. But they are not naive on their own accord; they are being kept this way... (no more comments on this)
And I don't think it's right to get agressive for someone's telling the TRUTH.

in uzbek:Tiqip qo'yish hammani ham qo'lidan keladi.
Ammo hikoyadagi CHAQIRIQQA nomardgina "tiqib qo'yish" bilan javob

Some people made similiar arguements first time we discussed the story last year. Don't you find your reaction and that of others (if you can recall'em from last year) more relevant to feelings rather than conscious? If you do, I can understand that. It happens to me a lot as well. I know, we all love our country and do respect and fOlLoW our culture, consider ourselves pAtRiOtS as the result of which make statements (and/or take actions) without giving any chance to our critical reasoning. Critisizing shouldn't be concidered ill-mannered or anything of that sort. It's just your opinion about a subject matter, which is given with the objective to improve a condition or solve a problem. I think Ben's story was appropriate for that definition.

I really would like you guys to respond after Ben made his intentions clear.

Respectfully sherzodR

P.S. Ben, you do look like an uzbek Wilk .

11-04-2000 07:14:44HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) Sanjar
Ya zhe govoryu, Amerikashki hotya i tupi'ye Wilk , no oni ochen' hitri'ye!

Vidite kak on vas tut vseh povernul na 180 gradusov k sebe!


Og'ayni, kritikaning ham har-hili bo'ladi.
Kritika bilan "odamni mazah qilish" orasidagi farqni tushuntirib otirishning hojati yoq deb oylayman. Yesli chyo, shu Amerikashkani o'sha peyjiga yana bir bor borib, Ozbeyla bilan otqazgan suhbatlari haqidagi hulosalariyu fikrlarini oqib chiq! Ha u suhbatdosh o'zbeylari ustidan kulib o'tiribdiku! Sad Face Buni kim kritika deydi?

Dear The California Bum,

Thanx for your reply on this board.
But I still consider your page as non-polite towards Uzbeks, who did their best for you. Sad Face

p.s. I am not asking to quit your page. It is your own business.

Peace to all.

11-04-2000 09:05:30HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 1 times) sherzodR
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Salom SJ.
...baribir ayb topdiz-a Kaliforniyalikni javobidan Wilk .
Bu maqolani man bir marta emas, balki bir necha marta o'qib chiqqanman. Hatto uni qog'ozga ham ko'chirtirib olganman.

Agar hozir o'shani o'qisam, o'lay agar..., O'zbekistonni sog'inib boshlayman. Chunki Ben-nomard(Happy Face )hikoyasini birorta yolg'onsiz yozgan; yozgan taqdirda ham mohirlik bilan yozgan (mani fikrimga qo'shilish shart emas). Uning ustiga o'zining bir oylik safari mobaynida to'plagan ma'lumotlari, fikr-mulohazalari tahsinga loyiq.

Albatta, o'zbek oyilasida bo'lib o'tgan dialogida anchagina mazharaomuz sharxlar qo'shgan, ammo ular maqolaning ijtimoiy ahamiyatini puchga chiqarmaydi. Balki, Benning shaxsiyati bilan bog'liq, xolos. Men hech kimga aynan o'sha yerini kritika deb ta'kidlaganim yo'q.

Mayli, o'sha yigitchaning har bitta "mazhara"si uchun uning nomiga bir to'q'moq uraylik. Ammo bu bilan biz maqolani butunlay inkor etolmaymiz. U, yana bir bor aytaman, KATTA AHAMIYATGA EGA!!! Men hech kimni o'zimning fikrimga qo'shiltirmoqchi emasman. Yagona niyatim, xudo xaqi, eslab o'tilgan muammolarga e'tiborni qaratish va yaratuvchanlikka asos bo'laoladigan baxs-munozaraga kirishishdir.

Agar haqqattan "Kaliforniyalik yigit sherzodRni ikki enlik xati b-n o'ziga qaratib oldi",-degan fikrda bo'lsangiz, man u yigitchani tanimiman, tanishish niyatim ham yo'q. U haqida gapirishni ham...

Maqolasida keltirgan mulohazalari 99% haqiqat ekanligiga man guvohlik beraman (zotan O'zbekistonnni Bendan ko'ra yaxshiroq bilaman).

Xurmat bilan
sherzodR (yoki SherzodR)

P.S. Balki yigitcha haqida gaplashish endi shartmasdir.

11-04-2000 10:09:33HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) another+Uzbek
Salom all,
Bollar, avvalo bir Uzbek maqolini eslatib qo'ymoqchiman: "Basharang qiyshiq bo'lsa oynadan o'pkalama." Albatta odammi madaniyatini, milliy urf-odatlari, qadriyatlaridan behabar bir chet ellikdan masharomuz gaplarni eshitish insonni nafsoniyatiga tegishi mumkin. Lekin, acchiq haqiqat shirin yolgondan ko'ra yaxshiroq. Mayli, u ozgina oshirib yuborgan bo'lsin, acchiqni ko'proq qo'shvorgan bo'lsin, lekin, hey, if that's the price u pay to get the real picture, let it be.

Hammalaringi adabiyotdan habarilar bor. Satira va yumor janrlarini farqini bilasilar. Yumor - bezobidniy kulgu. Satira - ko'proq tanqidga yaqin kulgu. Californiyali daydi ogayni chalishni yozganlarini satira deb tushunaylik. Biz uni har hil norozilikar bilan bombardimon qilmasligimiz kerak. Unga o'xshaganlar qancha ko'p fikrlarini bildirsa, shuncha yaxshi. Shundagina biz vatanimiz chet elliklarni ko'zida qanday ekanligini tushunamiz. Ba'zi so'zlari alam qilgan bo'lsa juda yaxshi. Bu alam bizga kelajakda yaxshiroq ishlashga, kamchiliklarni to'girlashga yordam beradi. In general, I think he was fair. Didn't you get sick of all the diplomatic b.s. usually people write about our country? When you read them you can almost smell that b.s. Is that what we want to consume all the time from the press?

Lichno manga bu yaxshi tajriba bo'ldi. Bunaqa maqolalarni ko'proq o'qisek chetdagi insonlar bizning jamiyatimizda nimani yoqtirishi, nimani yoqtirmasligini yaxshiroq tushunamiz. Kelajakda bu bizga nuqsonlarmizi togirlashga va madaniy, rivojlangan, iqtisodiy barkamol davlatlardan biriga aylanishimizga yordam beradi. Ahir o'zlarilar bilasilar bu erda kompaniyalar katta pul sarflashadi mijozlarni ular to'grisidagi fikrini bilish uchun. Marketingdan bilsanglar kerak qoniqmagan mijozlarning 10dan birigina o'z fikrini bildiradi. Bizga bo'lsa bu fella qancha ovora bo'lib web sitelar qilib fikrlarini yozibdi. "It is not even worth it" deb boshqa biron mamlakat haqida yozganida manga usha ko'proq alam qilgan bo'lardi.

To Californian fella:

Thanks for spending your time and energy to share your thoughts about our country. We (great number of us) appreciate it. It's our mission to work for the better future of our Motherland, which we love. It is really sad that we suffered that much from soviet system. Of course the worst demage is the one in people's minds. We have to work hard to overcome our economic and social problems. Maybe it will take dozens of years but it is worth it. I dream about that someday in my late 70s or 80s I will run into a website with some tourist's notes about Uzbekistan saying something like "holy cow, it was sooo COOL!" We'll try our best to make it happen.

Bollar, o'zlaring bilasizlar Hudo bizni geopolitics tomondan ozgina qisib qoygan. Ya'ni bizi double land-locked bo'lganimizi nazarda tutyapman. Shuningdek yaxshi bilasizlarki tourism har qanday mamlakatni iqtisodiy rivojlanishi uchun katta yordam berishi mumkin. Shuning uchun chet elliklarning bizning mamlakatimiz togrisida yozgan HAR QANDAY fikriga shahsiy haqorat deb bilmasdan, to'gri fikr, analitical tomondan yondoshimiz kerak. Ularning har qanday fikri bizi uchun katta e'tiborga loyiq. Shuning uchun bu yirtiq jeans kiygan ogaynimiz gapiga hafa bo'lishdan oldin yana bir Uzbek maqolini eslayik:
"Do'st achitib gapiradi.." shu bilan tugatmoqchidim yana bir maqol esga tushib qoldi. mayli bunisi silarga bonus bo'lsin FREE degandeyHappy Face
"To'gri gap tuqqaninga yoqmedi"
stay cool,
another Uzbek

11-04-2000 13:34:17HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) Avaz
To Alisher
Dustim shu erni ham tutatib yuboribsanku...
11-04-2000 15:03:14HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzb:Californian fella cries rivers (modified 0 times) SUN6500
To Californian Amigo:
Cool response dude. But for some reason I doubt about your sincerity. Your very statement of approximating people living in Uzbekistan to animals is quite far from being polite. If you really want to see what herd like mentality is, come by New York and ride '4' or '5' trains to Wall street. The same type of "animalistic" mentality can be observed if you take a trip from Yokohama to Tokyo every freakin' day. But I really doubt that you would brand Japanese as animals. Hmmm, no they are way too advanced, aren't they. If you have asked you to take off your torn jeans, and stuff, there is nothing to be shocked about. There is something called "culture" that sometimes Americans do tend to neglect. If you would have been in China, or India, you would have gotten the same type of response, but I doubt you would have had any type of a negative impression of their response. You complained about standing in lines while trying to purchase a ticket, no contest here. The country is just developing, and like in any developing country (As per your original descent: most of Latin American countries) you will encounter all sorts of difficulties and uncomfort. One thing you failed to mention is bribery. It is widespread and corroding the society from within (Like it is in Mexico, Peru, Guatemala)! Every step of the way you have to bribe someone! But your statement of :

"The herd like mentality of the people I saw running, pushing and shoving their way out of the plane would be repeated throughout my trip. In general if you are traveling with the locals in Uzbekistan, expect them to move like a herd of wild animals" ... is low, way too low man. Not a cool move... Sad Face

11-04-2000 19:39:47HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) MegaZ
I agree 100% with SUN6500 !!!
11-05-2000 08:36:13HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) DREAM
Here is the point I don't agree with:

"Polygamy of sorts is also accepted, as long as men can financially support the women." Although polygamy is accepted in Muslim Religion, it is prohibited in Uzbekistan according to the Article 46 of the Constituion of the Republic of Uzbekistan. I have been living in Uzbekistan for almost 20 years, I never seen any person with more than one spouse.

Here is the most interesting part for me:

"So one night I happened to consume just a bit too much cheap vodka, (a decent bottle of vodka which I brought home was less than a dollar, but that is not what I was drinking in country), then I tried ěNosî which is this really shitty chewing tobacco. Basically with that combo, I yakked my guts out, just after staggering out of a cafe."

Here is my experience with one the American airlines, namely US Airways, which started in LaGuardia Airport in New York City, NY:

We were four guys coming to Jacksonville, FL. As our flight from NYC to Jax, FL was from LaGuardia airport, we took a cab there. The flight was supposed to be a connecting one with one stop in Philadelphia, PA. Our flight was scheduled at 7:00pm. We arrived at LaGuardia airport at 5:00pm. There was a very long line and we joined it (US Airways terminal). At around 6:30pm they announced that our flight to Phili was cancelled because of the "bad weather" (the sky was cloudy, but it wasn't raining). There was another flight to Phili scheduled at 9:30pm, and they transferred us to that flight. We had to wait for almost 6 hours total to get to the flight to Phili, and eventually we got into plane at 10:50pm. We arriived to Phili and our plane to Jax, FL was gone long time ago.Happy Face
Our flight from Phili, PA to Jax, FL was scheduled at 8:00am but actually we got into plane at 10:30am - two and half hours later. Eventually we arrived to Jax, FL at around noon a day later instead of scheduled 11pm (total 13 hours LATER).

P.S. While I was waiting in the line in both LaGuardia and Philadelphia Airports, I looked at the screens showing the departure and arrival times of different flights. And I noticed that around 7 out of 10 flights were DELAYED, 2 out of 10 were CANCELLED, and only 1 out 10 was ON TIME.

God Bless Independent Uzbekistan Happy Face

11-05-2000 16:50:22HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) the_california_bum
It is just me again, and I'm glad to see some of you understand what I was trying to do and who I was witting my travel log (basically explaining the experience I had in your country to my peers, in terms they could relate to). From some of the responses I gather I painted a pretty accurate picture of some of the problems, uzbek society must contend with (in terms that ruffled some feathers).

Growing up in california where the culture is exported through the movies and superficially emulated around many parts of the world, it is very easy to be lulled into a sense every thing should work, act and function as it does back home. That is why I and many other americans, dress and act the way we do in many parts of the world. SUN6500 made the comment that I had a negative impression to being asked to pack away my old torn jeans (actually my response at the time was, wow this is something my mom would say.... and I thought it was rather humorous actually).

For better or for worst, american tourists blissfully can ignore most local cultural norms in many areas, because of the almighty dollar. For example if I was in china or india in a major city where there are lots of tourists, I could get away with wearing my pajamas with unbrushed hair in public as janet might say (btw I just described how some engineers dress in high tech work places), because forcing tourists to conform may make tourists find another place that does not impose such restrictions. The rules change (and if I did my homework, I would have been better prepared) when tourists head way off the beaten path, (i.e. go to kishlocks s.p? or tiny villages).

b.t.w. SUN6500 you forgot to mention (the tube in london, the subway in hong kong, the ělî in chicago, the subway in budapest, etc.). All I have to say is ěbeen there, done thatî and I think those places are zoos too. When I wrote ěmove like a herd of wild animalsî I was trying to describe what people were acting like in the shortest possible terms.

In new york and japan I have see people rush around but they are more like passive lemmings in a line (mindless going from home to work, etc.), in uzbekistan for lack of a better term they have a more herd like mentality (f.y.i. they also use the description herd like to describe many investors in the stock market), that is a legacy of the good old days when the soviet union made all its citizens line up for good and services and being at the head of the line insured that you would get an item before they ran out. I saw instances of this phenomena at bus and train stations, airlines counters, market places, etc. For example at the ěIpodromî sp? that really huge bazaar just outside of toshkent, I saw people aggressively waiting for some goods to be brought out and when the goods were brought out, people would literally shove others out of the way to get to the head of the line (it was kind of like a mosh pit without the music).

When you said, "One thing you failed to mention is bribery. It is widespread and corroding the society from within...!" I have to agree it is a problem world wide but since I was pretty much reveling in novelty of the uzbek experience, I ignored that aspect for the most part (such watching how to get cotton oil through unofficial channels, getting benzine (aka gas) from farm houses, etc.

I recall some stories I heard while traveling in country, that it was difficult to get certain jobs and schools without really yanking a few string and paying a few bribes to people in the right places to get the right stamps, etc. (even if a person was more than qualified to do a job or go to a certain school). If the objective is to attract foreign investment, I think it would be very close to impossible in an environment where bribery is widespread. If I were a business person, I would not invest in such a country, because it would be difficult to access risk.

On last thing, it was mentioned that polygamy is prohibited in Uzbekistan according to the Article 46 of the Constituion. In the state of Utah, polygamy was also outlawed by the state and mormon church, but in news reports it says it still exists in certain communities and is over looked my authorities. My question is how common is it for a man to have wife and a mistress? I know that part of the world is pretty much male oriented and women in traditional settings are expected to play a submissive role, and I was told (it may have been just gossip by pcv) three or four different stories where a married uzbek man had a mistress on the side (that btw is why I wrote "Polygamy of sorts is also accepted....")

So there you have it, my own experience of a visit to your country and some of the reasons I wrote what I did. Question is where do you all go from here? You cannot change the past, but you can effect changes in the future...

11-07-2000 03:32:46HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) KROKA
California Bum why are u using anonymizer?
May be this is not the author of an article but some jerk hiding behind anonymizer
11-17-2000 15:05:30HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) the_california_bum
Just updating my site for the week and thought Iíd check back here, f.y.i. anonymizer.com is a local isp (based in the san diego area).

So just for KROKA Iím going going out of my way to change my IP.

11-17-2000 19:24:15HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) KROKA
Just curious what r u doing in Mauritus and how did you find out about this board?
11-17-2000 20:09:14HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) yusuf
who the fuck is that american bastard. he does not know anything about uzbek culture. is american or british culture is so cool.
evrybody in uk and us is fucking drinkers.
even they can have a sex with somebody whom they do not know their name. what the fuck is that?
i am sorry guys but that is the truth about fucking amerian and british culture.
so take care
11-18-2000 01:39:57HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) ELBRUS
I support Yusuf's opinion. All of them fuckking drinkers.
11-18-2000 07:22:24HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) ELBRUS
For support my opinion I live with 5 british people.
They drink from Mon to Frid 40-50 can of heineken. And want also discuss about ALLOH
I understood that all of them fuck hells They never can understand UZBEKS culture because they haven't enough knowledge to understand it. MAN HAMMASIGA TUPURDIM BULARNI ANU TOJIK _BASMACH_NIYAM!
11-18-2000 07:32:45HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) Freestyler
Pravda glaza kolit...
11-18-2000 12:34:54HOST/IP:

New MessageRE:View of Uzbekistan (modified 0 times) KGB_
nothing to worry about, chyo pravda
to pravda and nothing insulting, so just be cool. All we have to do is to try to be objective, understand and respect other people's thoughts and ideas
11-19-2000 08:12:59HOST/IP: